George Mason Professor of Internet Law Carl Szabo joins Caroline Hyde to discuss the legal and logistical implications of Montana's TikTok ban, the first US state to do so across all phones and why he's worried by this move.

Montana

U.S Congress is debating a total ban of the popular social media app TikTok amid suspected links to China.

TikTok Ban

Legal implications of a TikTok ban

I'm going to hazard a guess here, Carl, that you're pretty anti what we're hearing from the governor and Montana more broadly today. Yeah. Thanks for having me on. This is something that should scare all of us because this is exactly what we don't want the government to do and what the government can't do. It can't decide what Web sites we can visit and what apps we can download. Imagine if the government of Montana came out and said you can no longer go to Bloomberg dot com. Of course everyone would be apoplectic. But that's exactly what we're seeing here with Tick Tock. At the end of the day what we are ultimately going to see is a legal challenge on this because this is a clear violation of the First Amendment. The government can't ban speech which is exactly what this is. Simultaneously there is a clear violation of something called a bill of attainder. It's a legal term that we use all rarely where you can't criminalize an individual. And that's exactly what you're seeing here. So this is a slam dunk case of unconstitutionality. But more importantly it's a dangerous precedent against free speech free expression and free enterprise in the freest nation in the world. Remind us why thus far they've been able to ban them on government funds. Yeah. The bans on government phones. I actually don't have any issue with an employer. Many employers are watching this program right now and we all have rules and restrictions on what our employees can and cannot do on their own company devices. And we can say well you can't go to this Web site. You can't download that app. And so the government is perfectly free to do that for their own employees federal employees state employees local employees. In fact as a taxpayer I don't see any reason why government employees should have Tick Tock on their government devices because when I'm paying their salaries as a taxpayer I expect them to be working not producing Tick Tock videos not watching entertainment videos. So that's why the government can do it on their own devices. But it is very different from the government then coming in telling me telling you telling everyone else out there what Web sites they can visit and what apps they can download on their own personal devices. So as you say and you've come out saying this is unconstitutional Tick Tock has come out saying that it's against free speech legal arguments abound. But it does put the owners back on the federal government. And what is currently being debated by the administration to either ensure that national security is preserved or indeed curtail Tick Tock within the United States. More broadly is there any way that the federal government could enact this do you think. The thing at the federal level is Tick Tock is kind of a distraction. It's fig leaf. A lot of lawmakers don't want to have an important necessary discussion on the U.S. dependency on China national security cybersecurity or privacy. But there is legislation today before Congress that they could look to do. They could create a national standard on cybersecurity. They could look to create a national standard on privacy laws. And what this will do is it will protect all Americans regardless of whether an attack is coming from outside the U.S. or from within. Let's remember some of the biggest data breaches in U.S. history came from inside the U.S. whether it was solar winds in Texas whether it is the hack last month of the health information of members of Congress or whether it was a government employee deciding to dump all of our secrets about Ukraine onto the Internet to impress their friends. So we need to harden our critical infrastructure regardless. And focusing on one business one entity one nation distracts us from the important work that Congress must do to harden these critical infrastructures and make us all safe. More broadly when you're looking abroad at what's occurring we are seeing other countries UK for example also banning on government devices. Is there anywhere that is thinking that they have to curtail certain social media apps because in this of course discussion that's been leveled by Montana they don't just mention tick tock. They also mention other bite down bite down apps. Cap cut lemonade. But also there's telegram which they sort of see having a link to Russia. So there is certainly one nation that is in the business of deciding what Web sites and what apps it's citizens can use. And that's China. They have the great firewall where if it if the CCP doesn't like what you're saying the citizens can't see it. It's a horrible model for the rest of the world. It is the antithesis of what America stands for. So I expect the US to lead the way to reject bans on speech reject bans on apps and push the notion that citizens and free people should be able to decide what is or is not appropriate for them. Because at the end of the day if I have concerns about tick tock I just don't I just won't use it. I'll use something else. And that's the freedom of choice. That's the freedom that we have here in America. And unfortunately in Montana that freedom is being taken away from its citizens. Very briefly of course your associate association members are ticked top. They're also Amazon. Airbnb Etsy Meta and a number. Do your association members currently feel that regulation in the US is working for them or against them. You know across the board naturally is out there fighting every single day to plow the field for free expression free enterprise. And we are all behind the notion of creating a national standard on things like privacy law or cybersecurity law. Because at the end of the day what that will do is secure Americans. And more importantly it will make it easier for Americans to know how their privacy is treated how their data is treated. And for businesses out there it gives them a simple easy one standard to follow which drives down costs of business of compliance and makes it easier to spend that money on innovation. We need innovation at the speed of technology not at the speed of government. And that's what we all agree on.

Prospects for a Gaza ceasefire appeared slim as Hamas reiterated its demand for an end to the war in exchange for the freeing of hostages, and Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu flatly ruled that out.

Tel Aviv-Yafo

Israel-Gaza War

Gaza truce hopes fade as Israel, Hamas trade blame

The Israeli cabinet has voted to unanimously shut down Al Jazeera's operations in the country. That's according to Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu in a statement on X. 
It is not clear when this decision will take effect.

Israel announces ban of Al Jazeera channel, website

Australian police said they have shot dead a boy after he stabbed a man in Western Australia's capital Perth, in an attack authorities said indicated terrorism.

Perth

Australian police shoot boy dead after stabbing

Sadiq Khan has been elected mayor of London, winning a historic third term after a dramatic contest. Khan was declared the winner over the Conservative candidate, Susan Hall with 43.8% of the vote.

London

Sadiq Khan elected London mayor for third term

Floods have killed at least 58 people in southern Brazil. Nearly 70,000 have been forced from their homes. Tens of thousands of people have been left without drinking water or electricity. It's the worst flooding the region has seen in more than 80 years.

State of Rio Grande do Sul

Climate Crisis

'It's going to get worse': Brazil braces for flood peaks

Students at the University of California in Irvine say they will remain on campus until all their demands are met. School officials say they'll continue to negotiate with the protesters -- and are hoping to reach a deal soon.

Irvine

Police, protesters in stand-off at California university

The Federal Government will cut $3 billion in student debts, in measures to be announced in next week's budget. The reforms will see the student loans of three million graduates by an average of $1200 and changes to loan indexation.

Camperdown

Labor to wipe $3 billion of student debts

Mexican authorities have charged three suspects over the disappearance of Australian brothers Callum and Jake Robinson and their American friend Jack Carter Rhoad. It's believed the tourists became embroiled in a bungled robbery. Four bodies were found near the trio's abandoned campsite, but are yet to be formally identified.

Baja California

Mexican authorities lay charges over Australian brothers' disappearance

A knife-wielding teenage boy has been shot dead by police in Bunnings carpark in Willetton, Perth. The 16-year-old boy had phoned Triple Zero saying he planned ‘acts of violence’ and stabbed a male member of the public. The WA Police Commissioner says the teenager had ‘mental health and radicalisation issues’.

Willetton

Police shoot dead ‘radicalised’ teenage boy in Perth

The death toll from rains in Brazil's southernmost state of Rio Grande do Sul rose to 57, local authorities said on Saturday (May 4) afternoon, while dozens still have not been accounted for.

Dozens missing amid record-breaking Brazil flooding

There are renewed hopes for a ceasefire in Gaza after a Hamas delegation arrived in Cairo to continue talks amid reports of a proposal agreed to by Israel to halt fighting for an initial 40 days in exchange for the release of hostages.

Hopes rise for Gaza ceasefire amid Hamas talks

Students showing support for Palestinians have set up camp outside the University College London. They say they'll continue their protest until the university divests from Israeli institutions that 'profit from the war in Gaza'.

Pro-Palestine university protests spread to London

Dozens of Palestinians have held a demonstration in the West Bank, to condemn the killing of five Palestinian fighters. Crowds rallied hours after Israeli troops attacked the fighters in the village of Deir al Ghoson.

Jerusalem

Five Palestinian fighters killed during West Bank raid

Dozens of people in two rubber dinghies have reached the southern coast of England, the latest among thousands of asylum-seeking migrants to make the risky sea crossing from France this year.

Dover

Asylum seekers arrive in England despite Rwanda threat

A former immigration detainee has been bailed after allegedly threatening police with a knife in Melbourne. It follows the recent violent home invasion allegedly committed by another released detainee in Western Australia Pressure is mounting on Federal Immigration Minister Andrew Giles to be held to account.

Canberra

Pressure mounts on Immigration Minister after latest detainee incident

Mexican authorities have reportedly discovered a fourth body near the cliff site where Perth brothers Jake and Callum Robinson disappeared, along with their American friend Jack Carter Rhoad. The Australian family of the brothers are en route to Mexico. The bodies are yet to be formally identified.

Ensenada

Fourth body discovered in Mexico search for Australian brothers

Ukraine is eagerly waiting for Western aid as Russia racks up more victories on the battlefield. Meanwhile, British Foreign Secretary David Cameron on a visit to Kyiv gave Ukraine the go-ahead to use British weapons to strike directly at Russia.

Kyiv

Ukraine Invasion

U.K. allows its weapons to be used on Russian soil

Canadian police have charged three Indian men with the murder of Sikh separatist leader Hardeep Singh Nijjar last year and said they were probing whether the men had ties to the Indian government.

Surrey

Canada police charge three with murder of Sikh leader

China has launched an uncrewed spacecraft on a nearly two-month mission to retrieve rocks and soil from the far side of the moon, the first country to make such an ambitious attempt.

Wenchang

China launches mission to far side of the moon

Britain's opposition Labour Party won a parliamentary seat in northern England on Friday (May 3) and control of several councils, inflicting heavy losses on the governing Conservatives to pile more pressure on Prime Minister Rishi Sunak.

U.K.'s Labour claims big early win over Conservatives

Turkey has announced that it is halting trade with Israel, worth $7 billion a year, until a permanent ceasefire and humanitarian aid are secured in Gaza. Israel denounced the decision as breaking trade agreements.

Ankara

Turkey to stop trade with Israel until Gaza ceasefire

Media watchdog group Reporters Without Borders warned of declining government support for press freedom as it unveiled its annual world rankings on Friday, highlighting Argentina among the countries where the situation has deteriorated.

Paris

States doing less to support press freedom, says watchdog

Arizona's Democratic governor signed a bill overturning an 1864 law banning abortion, a month after the state's supreme court said the Civil War-era rule was valid.

Arizona

Arizona governor signs bill repealing 1864 abortion ban

U.S. President Joe Biden said that both freedom of speech and the rule of law must be respected in protests at college campuses over Israel's war in Gaza. In response to a reporter's question, Biden said that the campus protests had not forced him to reconsider his policies in the Middle East.

Washington

Biden breaks silence on protests at University Campuses

From suspensions to expulsions to criminal charges, college students across the U.S. involved in these pro-Palestinian protests could face life-changing consequences. Some are demanding amnesty for these protesters.

New York

More than 1,000 student protesters arrested across U.S.

English voters are heading to polling stations to pick mayors, councilors and a new lawmaker in the last electoral test for British Prime Minister Rishi Sunak before a national vote later this year.

Voters head to polls in last test for U.K.'s Sunak

The US State Department accused Russia of having used a chemical weapon against Ukrainian forces in violation of the Chemical Weapons Convention, while also announcing fresh sanctions against Moscow. In addition to the chemical agent chloropicrin, Russia also used "riot control agents (tear gas) as a method of warfare in Ukraine, also in violation of the CWC," the department said in a factsheet.

Zaporizhzhia

U.S. accuses Russia of using chemical weapons in Ukraine

There are grave concerns for Perth brothers Jake and Callum Robinson who are missing on a surf trip in Mexico's Baja region. The pair have failed to arrive at their accommodation and are not responding to contact from their families.

Council of the City of Sydney

Grave fears for brothers missing on Mexico surf trip

Federal Treasurer Jim Chalmers has kept open the prospect of tax incentives in the budget as business warned that changes to foreign investment laws. It comes amid criticism that budget spending could prompt further inflation and prompt rate rises.

Government hints at further tax incentives in Budget

Colombian President Gustavo Petro says his country will break diplomatic relations with Israel. He's criticised Israel's conduct since the start of the war on Gaza. Petro requested to join South Africa's case at the International Court of Justice accusing Israel of genocide.

SEE THE FULL STORY

TikTok Ban