President Trump has turned a corner on the Russia-Ukraine war this week, announcing a deal to send weapons to Ukraine via NATO and giving Vladimir Putin an ultimatum to make peace. Charles Kupchan, senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, speaks with John Dickerson about the president's new stance.

Moscow

President Trump has changed his approach to the Russia-Ukraine war, now supporting the delivery of U.S. Patriot missile systems to Ukraine via Germany and other NATO countries, rather than direct U.S. involvement. This shift follows Trump's realization that Russian President Vladimir Putin was not willing to compromise and continued aggressive actions against Ukraine despite diplomatic discussions.

Charles Kupchan, a senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, noted that Trump's new stance has bolstered Ukrainian morale and reassured NATO allies. The weapons, particularly air defense systems, are seen as critical for Ukraine, which is facing intense Russian attacks. Kupchan also highlighted that NATO is currently unified and strong, with Trump's recent commitments providing reassurance to European partners.

Explained: Trump's evolution on Putin and NATO

At the White House today, President Trump said a shipment of U.S. Patriot missile systems for Ukraine is being delivered by Germany. It's part of the president's vowed faith to provide weapons, but through other NATO countries, not directly. For tonight's interview, we turn to senior fellow at the Council on Foreign Relations, Carl – Charles Kupchan. Charles, good to be with you again. The president said in his recent position discussing Putin, he said Putin really surprised a lot of people. He talks nights, and then he bombs everybody in the evening. Was that a surprise to anyone that Putin was behaving that way? I think it was a surprise to Donald Trump, but not a surprise to many of us who know what Putin is up to. You know, Putin, from the beginning of his dialogue with Trump, has not shown any willingness to compromise on his maximalist war aims, effectively turning Ukraine back into a Russian satellite. And I think Trump was embarrassed, you know. He would call Putin, they'd have a nice chat, and then Putin would hang up the phone and launch 500 drones and a dozen ballistic missiles. And I think Trump basically said, I'm getting played here, and I'm going to start pushing back. And we've seen Trump start pushing back over the course of the last week. I'm going to get to that pushback in a moment, but staying on Putin, has the Russian offensive into Ukraine changed in its nature, or how would you characterize the tempo of things at the moment? I think it has two pieces. One is the Russians are pushing along the front line, which runs about 1,000 kilometers, some 600, 700 miles. Not all along it, but they're trying to break through in some critical areas and take more Ukrainian territory. And then on an almost nightly basis, they're hitting Ukraine, including Western Ukraine, with some of the most serious barrages of missiles, of drones, of other kinds of air assets that we've seen in three years of war. My own guess is that Putin thinks that this is the summer that he cannot defeat Ukraine by conquering it, but break it, turn it into a failed state, topple the government, pull it back into Russia's sphere of influence. How do you see the weapons being sent? How useful will they be, these weapons that are going? And what does it mean also psychologically in terms of the support for Ukraine? Well, I would say that every weapon matters. The Ukrainians are short on just about everything, including manpower, and nobody's going to send them human beings, at least for now. So the weapons is the best that they can do. They're in particular need of air defense, not just the patriots that you mentioned at the beginning, John, but all kinds of air defense that are good at ballistic missiles, as well as the drones that are coming in in large numbers. But morale issue that you mentioned is in some ways even more critical than the weapons, because if Putin is going to break Ukraine, he's going to break them psychologically. He's going to break their morale. And by Trump pivoting, and instead of shouting at Zelensky, making clear that he's going to stand by Zelensky and give Ukraine the weapons it needs, it really does buck up the Ukrainian population. 20 seconds left, Charles. The state of NATO right now from where it has been? As strong as it's been in a very long time, I think everyone was walking on eggshells before the recent summit. Trump went there. He was in a good mood. He said good things. He said, I'm going to stand by Ukraine and I will defend NATO territory. That's exactly what the Europeans wanted to hear. Now they're hearing that Trump is ready to support Ukraine. We're in a pretty good place, given where Trump started. Charles Kupchan, thank you so much for being with us.

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